Podcast Interviews

Legends & Losers Part 2

September 28,2017 / Podcast / admin

Listen to the entire interview here (48 minutes)


Watch here



Thanks for coming back here. It is

part two. Yeah, pretty much and the audience can feel that and I think that’s, we’re in an age where they want something in their craving, something real, which I think is why they’re turning to podcasting and maybe the NPR audience isn’t quite reflective of that because their radio shows on the Internet, but for all the other ones that are more real, it is really reflecting this dry for like, I want something real. I want to eavesdrop on real conversations. And uh, and there’s just something very, very different about that. I think that’s why you see shows like Joe Rogan, Adam Carolla being so popular and have been popular for a long time. Okay. Yeah. Because they’re more much more to the dialogue side than the interview side. You’re hanging out with them. They become people in your life. [inaudible] yeah. Yeah. Say like the best podcast or like going to denny’s and listening to non conversation to the booth behind you. You can’t turn around to look at them because it’d be rude, but to just sit in there, you know, listening to every story. Um, and it’s just, it’s real, it’s raw. It’s a conversation.



yeah. And, and at least with us, I know this is not the case, but I can’t find the quote, but uh, it, it’s from my old buddy Ramsey Smith that he was talking about something to the defendant, paraphrasing, but how he likes the fact with legends and losers, it no idea what you’re going to get it either way, but you know, so there’s a, you know, some people who are

a four, if you will, going on, in the magical mystery tour. No. Well, and that’s basically, you’ve created like a, what would you say? Like a category of one, right? It’s like a, you know, if you had to describe, if you had to describe, you say I’m nuts at work. Yes, curse certifiable. But besides that, but if you had to describe, let me think of, think of podcasts like I’m in a musical context as a band or something like that. You know, if you had to come along and late eighties, you had to describe what Nirvana was. How do you describe nirvana to someone who’s a fan of hair metal, right? Yeah. It’s hard. Yeah, exactly. Like you really don’t. People have to sample it and see what it’s like to see if they like it. And sometimes you know, those movements just kind of take off. And I think podcasting is much more like that than it is like, um, like news, right? So in terms of like what becomes popular and some things are just gonna, like they’re just going to cash it for reasons that we can’t quite put our finger on it. And just like, um, just like nirvana took off and then then mud honey got signed a year later or whatever it was, right? Because they in the same scene. So somebody comes along and says, Hey, if you’d like Nirvana, you might like mud honey. Great.

But my breakout for a band, Tom mud, honey, I think tom was a big mud honey gunny.

I think I was in the navy with my hair. Uh, my head getting shaved during the mud. Honey.

Yes. You are following them around on Tierra with your cargo shorts and your, uh, your hiking boots.

Uh, no. I was a piston and a bottle every, uh, every month for a drug test during that face.

Let’s go to say pissing in a bottle. Isn’t that an old police song? But I guess that’s message in a bottle. That’s a message that nobody wants to be on the receiving end up. Yeah, exactly. I’ve been to rock concerts where they throw fucking piss at yet. It’s terrible. Oh my God. Yeah. Neanderthals, they pee in a cup plastic cup and then fire them forward like me. A Canadian rockstar was. It was in Scotland of all places. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And the event was called t in the park and Carrie and I immediately started to refer to it as p in the park. The park. You never knew when you were going to get hit by a flying piss bomb. Oh my God. Do not recommend it. Do not go to the park and Scotland, unless you’re into piss bumps.

The weirdest thing. Like how did this become a thing that we do? There was like 100,000 people at this. It wasn’t like some. The foo fighters were there, right? Bruno Mars was there, Arctic monkeys were there. It was like a big festival thing with tons and tons of people. And this happens regularly or as we say here in America regularly. Well, I’m very sorry that you got pee thrown at you. Horrible, horrible wannabe rock stars. Yeah. I highly do not recommend it. You will never hear on 60 minutes that you’ll never hear a conversation about being in the park on 60 minutes. I know I’m well, who knows, maybe they’ll be an expo. Say about that. All right. So let’s, uh, so tell him, let’s go back to like being a great guest. So when you kind of gear up for being on one of your thousand podcasts that you’ve been on. So do you, do you look at like what do I convey? What’s my goal? What are some of the things that you kind of runs in your head before you gear up to be a guest?

Well, first one is like, can I bring value here? Right. Um, and I think a lot of people forget that this is a stage, right? So, uh, you’re being invited to a stage, so make sure that you know who you’re talking to. Um, you know, listen to the podcast, get in on the, um, on the, the lingo, the jokes and everything there too because nothing ruins your credibility more than, you know, if they ask a question, they ask all their guests and you have no idea. Like I was on one and um, thank God I got briefed on it before the, the question they asked all their guests was, what’s your favorite Renee Zellweger show or movie? And I was like, if I wouldn’t have known that beforehand, she was awesome. And Spinal Monte Python. It’s like my answer to everything on that, that of the Matrix for Brian will tell me which monty python’s a. it’s got to be life of Brian because as a freshman in high school and Catholic school, the priest told us if you watch that movie you were going straight to hell.

And so we looked at that immediately, oh, that’s like a five star, you know, thumbs two thumbs up, review if that’ll get you to hell. You got to watch that movie. But yeah, no. So knowing what the podcast is about doing that scene of what value you can bring there, because really all you know, what it’s about is, you know, telling your story, glutton, people know who you are, how you can help them. Um, you know, it’s not an avenue to sell on. It’s really just to get that word out. What should you do then with. The thing is, is that as big as this world is, there’s gotta be somebody out there. And I think that’s the biggest problem that even even if you can’t help, you, don’t think you can really help. Even if I can’t help myself, that just pawns.

But I do like that there’s a responsibility you take on as a guest. And then if you’re listening to this and you’re a host or an aspiring host, one of the things that you can do is have a really good prep call with the guest, right in which you hopefully inform them of those things. Right? So if they were, if they were doing that for you, ideally, especially now maybe an officer or an audio recording that there’s a little bit more leeway. But like with my main show, we’re live video, like we cannot not do a prep call, right? People need to know what the hell they’re getting into. Right? So believe me. So before when they come on, about a week or two before the show, we’re going to do a prep call with them and 15 minutes we’re in, we’re out. We’re going to talk about all the content we’re going to talk about.

You know, what things do they need to know? Here’s when you show up, here’s some of the green time is green. Thomas should say, here’s somebody go live. Here’s the way it works. That way they show up and they know exactly what’s on them as a guest. And we do everything that we can to kind of take the mental burden off of them so that they can sit down and have a super busy day, show up and not remember anything about the show, opened their calendar and just quickly scan through that calendar appointment and go, Oh yep, I know exactly what I’m doing. Okay, they’re going to send me the link. I’m to click on, I’m going to go. They’re going to handle everything and I’m going to go. So that’s kind of the ideal. So if you are, if you’re a guest and you’re not getting that, you have to be proactive and get it. But if you’re a host, if you can do everything you can to be like that, it makes a huge difference in the perception that the guests come away have you from based on their experience with you. The whole experience starts from the very first time you send them an email about being a guest on the show. And it goes all the way through the entire show and beyond into how you, you know, follow up and promote their show and give them the materials, like all that stuff is to think about.

It’s almost like, you know, if somebody invites you to a, uh, a party or something like that, if both both people do their homework beforehand and ask the questions, it’s going to be so much better. But if I think that it’s all on the podcast host responsibility and I just have to show up now, I’m not taking the, taking it seriously or taken the, you know, you’ve got to respect the house you’ve been invited to. So respecting the host and the audience there too.

Yup. The grade and then. Yeah. And then having a good idea of, okay, how am I going to bring value? Knowing where you’re going to send people, you know, you meant what, by the way, Tom, you mentioned that you kind of dialed in what you recommend for the number of calls to action that you’d given a podcast. What is that a ratio? And does it change for like different lengths of shows?

Um, it’s a really short show, um, it may be only one or two, but most of the things we’ve found is that if you give people three ways to sort of say yes really, because the idea is not just to get the end and just say, you know, here, uh, email me here to get a newsletter, just give them value throughout out that. So a lot of times the other thing is that knowing that this is evergreen content, our testing has shown, just don’t send them to your homepage, right? Because if it’s just an audio only, they have no idea who I am, what I look like or what my website looks like. So send them to a dedicated page, like almost like a, a homepage just for that, uh, that show, sort of, we call it a welcome page and you know, give them the stuff that you talked about there and add that value. It’s not enough just to say, um, you know, you’ve heard me now, just find me. No, give them the next step. Give if they’re interested, give them an easy way to go from being just passive listeners to active visitors and engaged leads.

Yeah. So there was a, and we talked about this. I had a client of mine that went on entrepreneur on fire. He gets 200 email opt ins directly off of the show that I can trace them through infusionsoft directly back to that show. Uh, so the difference with him versus like some of the other people I’ve known that have been on the show is that he has a really great proven, tested lead magnet. And so he sent them to that dedicated page for that promoted a couple of times on the show. And it was something that he already knew that for his audience hold. Well because he had tried it, tested it, proven it for himself. Uh, and so if you’re, if you’re a guest on a show for, you’re going to upset you. If you’re going to start working with Tom, with your company to start doing guest appearances on a regular basis. That’s something to really think deeply about his, you know, what’s the, what’s the most important, like small tactical problem that I can solve for my audience that I can give away something that helps solve that problem and send everybody there

and, and not to state the obvious, but this is for people

for whom and we’re going podcasts for lead generation reasons. Right? Right. Or thought, yeah. Thought leadership if you want to talk about isn’t just about lead generation for sales necessarily. Although if you’re looking to sell books or you know, build a speaking, coaching, consulting career, that type of thing. It’s like indirectly sales. Um, but yeah, I mean if you’re, if you’re a thought leader within a company, you still want to send them to a place where you get some sort of valuable download and get them into your ecosystem for your company rather than let’s say sending like, Hey, if you know, I’m the CMO for Marquetto and I’m going to be on a bunch of different podcasts. I’m not going to just send them to Marketo.com. They’re going to get lost in, you know, all that stuff. I want to send them to a, like a special Tommy cuddler. Welcome page. Now you could also think of it as a landing page or a squeeze page, but you want to send them somewhere dedicated. Squeezepage it’s right.

We actually, we actually tested that and it did better on a welcome page and there’s a landing page, right? Because if they come back, it’s okay if they look around the website, it’s not like you just got to force some gimme or email, um, you know, because ultimately we don’t want just more leads. We want more customers and if, if they’re not interested, um, you know, don’t force them into that. And I think the other thing too is just making it easy for the listener. It drives me crazy when I’m listening to a podcast and I’m like, Oh, you know, I want to follow this person and learn more and all of a sudden, you know, I’m, I’m running or doing something. And I say running, like when I said listening to or reading a book, it’s a,

it’s a phrase I really, it’s more, it’s more. Are you paying someone to run for you? You sit on the couch or what are you one of these guys that, um, goes, I like to call it. I think Dave Barry was the first guy to call it this dark walking. No, I asked walking dork yet. Dork walking. Were you?

No, I actually, I actually call it running, but if I went much slower probably be called sightseeing. But you know, whatever you do in that and somebody starts going, well you can email me here and they give that. You can go and find my twitter here. And it’s like, dude, you know, just give me one place to go make it easy.

Yeah. You taught me that. Just legends and losers.com. Period.

No, this just go there.

Yeah. Yeah. Not The 14,000 ways you get. Get to me on the social interweb yeah. Yeah. Especially when it’s different. And I, and I hear people giving websites where there’s underscores dashes, you. Oh my God. Like half of it’s in another language, so there’s like a euro sign in there for some reason I don’t know what’s going on, but yeah, like anything like that where it’s like most people are listening, like you said, Tom, to a podcast while they’re running, they’re in the car. It has to be memorable enough that they can remember it afterwards or they can just quickly pull it up on their phone while they’re doing something else, go to the page and not have any trouble. Like avoid as much as much punctuation as possible and it’s amazing how little things like that affect how many people get into your world from podcasting. Right? Just by just by really thinking about how are people really consuming this under the. On the other end, right? It’s not just about me and what I’m doing in the recording process about what is the end person doing when they’re listening to this

because like we, we tested what text to opt in, you know, it should work great. I’ve been live events where people say, oh, just text this and you know, get this. We tested it on podcasts. It never worked well and I think it’s because people are multitasking. They’re starting, they’re listening on their phone and they’re not going to stop to text.

Yeah, they’re interesting. They’re driving, right? They’re commuting in some other forums or on a bus train, whatever, whatever. And they’re at the gym.


Now what I do, I’m a podcast super consumer and so I, uh, have my phone in my pocket and one earbud in and when I’m bouncing around the house, hanging out with the hands, doing whatever I’m doing, I’m always listening to a podcast. I have one of those, I call it a hockey puck goes, what’s the name of the company? It’s a stupid name like you. Is it you? He was hot. It was hockey pucks speaker. It’s a bluetooth speaker and it’s. And it’s waterproof or water resistant. And so like I’ll be listening to a podcast and it’s time to get in the shower and I know I got to shave so I’m going to be in there for a little bit. I’ll fucking fire that fucking hockey puck up. Then I’ll just throw that shit in the shower and I can be listening to my podcast, the shower, shaving my fucking head. I mean, that’s how much I consume. Um, you know, this kind of information because Tom like you, I’m on. This is how I learn. And uh, and it, you know, it’s the Zig ziglar thing. He called it the, um, automobile university, right? It’s the downtime university now and because of the mobile technology, we can stick the smartest people in the world, in our ear all the time.

What I love about it is you can change the speed too, because if I listen to something at one x, my mind wanders. So if I’m listening to like an audible book or a podcast, it’s usually like one and a half to two x and it makes me focus, but it’s the weirdest thing. Then to talk to podcasters live, you know, after you’ve listened to Christopher at two x and then you listen to a live and it’s like, why are you talking so slow? Get to the point,

do you really listen to legends and losers it to x town?

Ah, it’s one and a half x.

yeah, I was going to say two X. There’s a little, little extreme. It’s funny. I was doing a listening to the upcoming Ray Wong episode and listening to it at two x and I’m like, yeah, I really can’t fall. Like he’s just fast enough at normal speed. That doubling him is like, nope, it got to go back to regular speed. So it kind of depends on who you’re listening to, but one and a half is definitely much more comfortable, but I can, I can see what you mean, Tom. You get use of them at a certain level and then you hear them in real life and just sounds like they’re stone, which actually in Chris’s case might say that

easy, easy.

I would never consider podcasting stone. No, never, never. Alright. Tell them. So, uh, I know one of the questions that I get all the time is how do I monetize my podcast? Right? I mean, that’s, I, I get it. How do you monetize your own podcast? How do you monetize clients’ podcasts? So I’m sure you get this all the time for both sides of the hosts and guests. What’s your advice?

To me, it’s got to be part of a marketing your marketing plan. So I think trying to make money just off a podcast, man, that’s hard to do. You know, uh, if you’re going to do pay per click or pay per for impressions, that’s tough to do. A, I think it’s works much better when you’ve got another service, you know, um, you know, how you gonna make money off of a yellow pages ad. Well, it’s because it’s driving it to another, probably not going to make it more now, but it’s driving to another part of the business. I think you got to look at that the same way a podcast has to be part of your overall business plan. And there are some people that no monetization of podcasts is that it’s a, it’s a lead Gen. it’s a well, and it really is. I mean, it’s a. If you think about, um, thought leadership and how many companies today I was just talking to a venture capitalist and he said to be the only way I know how to differentiate is around thought leadership, intellectual capital. And so if you’re in, uh, thinking business and what business isn’t thinking business,

but uh, if you’re in a sort of big thinking business, there’s a lot of big thinking that needs to get done and there’s a lot of dialogue that needs to happen around that. And, and we know with category kings in particular, they are setting the agenda. They have a point of view and um, you know, they’re delivering against that point of view and they’re exposing the world to it.

And um,

it’s interesting, you know, you think about today and you say, well, if I had a big idea and I want it just spread that we’re, we’re that idea around the world, what’s the most effective way to do that today? It’s hard to argue. It’s not podcasting. I mean, there are other digital mechanisms to make things viral force. But man, it feels like an important part of the mix. There’s a podcast called grant Baldwin, he’s got a different podcast now, but he started out one and it was how did you get into that? That was the entire question and the entire focus of it and it was a daily podcast and I remember asking him early on, you know, what’s your plan for

this? And he’s like, I have no plan with this. He said, but exposure brings opportunity and it was amazing within a year, you know, he met so many different people that opened up so many doors from that. So I think if you start figuring out that audible’s going to pay me $18 per thousand downloads, that’s going to be a hard way to make money that way.

Yeah. And talking about going, going back to the thought leadership thing, I think that’s one of the things that I, I don’t like about interview podcasts compared to let’s say a dialogue podcast, right? Because how are you going to convey a big idea, a big point of view if your. If the only thing you can do is ask questions now, obviously you can ask great questions and there’s a, there’s a measure of like you can ask thought provoking questions in a way they kind of uncovers but you really can’t make a statement about the problem that you solve and why it matters to the world in a strictly like interview format and so like if you’re a thought leader in a business or whether you’re a coach, speaker, consultant, like you have a message to share like you want to impact the world. Podcasting is amazing but not if you start an interview podcast where the entire focus of each episode is on the guests and what they have to say.

Like it has to be like a two way dialogue to where there’s the opening there for you to share like what your perspective is, which is what I like about legends and losers is what I like about my own show it because it’s from the star. They been dialogue podcast, not interview podcasts because it’s the only way to get a point of view across in that format. You know, and we see it with legends and losers, um, you know, as much as they enjoy the dialogs with guests, they also want to hear from you, Chris, that we’ve talked about this before, that’s why you’re doing the unlocked episodes, which were we released as a, they’re not technically bonus episodes, but they’re kind of, there are some I that way because they’re, they’re not dialogues right there outside of the normal stream of that dialogue thing. And because that’s what gives you the opportunity to speak directly to the audience, give them a message that they need and want to hear.

Hopefully. Hopefully they may think it’s mental, but unfortunately you can’t help them. You never know what you’re going to get. It’s kind of whatever, whatever zebra we chase down whatever a rabbit hole. But you know, the monetization thing is interesting. I, I do think that a lot of podcasters who think they’re going to make money selling advertising or are mistaken, on the other hand, there are podcasts that are very big shows that, um, generate a very meaningful amount of, of income. You know, the interesting thing for us is monetizations not a goal, there is no plan, there’s no strategy. It’s not, you know, and so I don’t know, be interesting to get a sense from you guys because you guys would know much better how, how many, how many podcasts are there that are like legends and losers it in so far as the,

the purpose of the show or the intention of the show is to make some kind of a difference or to shine a light in certain areas. Period. Full Stop. And there’s no, I mean sure, I guess you could argue, I guess you could argue I’m a marketing play bigger the book. Sure. But I mean it’s not, I mean how much money do you make from fucking nothing. So for authors and an agent and a publisher and it’s like, so, you know, I mean but so okay. So maybe that’s part of the evil plan, but not really. As you could tell those checks aren’t going to change anything. And so the purpose of the book is impact. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I like, I don’t spend two years of my life. I don’t want to speak for the other guys, but I, they’d say similar things. You don’t spend that time, um, unless you want to make an impact. I don’t think. I mean, I guess maybe there’s some people who do it purely for ego reasons and I’m not saying there aren’t some nice things for your ego about having a major publisher publish your work and certainly a moment to be proud, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t a book of fucking Kardashians selfies. That’s for damn sure.

Could you say the same thing with podcasts there? Right. So you may start out with it for a altruistic reason, for ego, whatever it is. But you know, the, the thing is, is that most podcasts that die die within the first 10 episodes because that’s when the fun goes away and you realize, oh, this is work. You know, I’m sure there’s been times where you haven’t wanted to, you know, to get an episode out, but that consistency is so important. And you know, that’s the, what is the amateurs do it when they love to do it. Professionals do it. Uh, you know, no matter what, and I think that’s really what sets it apart at times too.

I’m paraphrasing, but, uh, my good buddy and, and an unbelievable legends and losers guest, Eddie Yoon, and I hope he comes back. Uh, he recently wrote this amazing thing about, about legends and losers on, on, um, in ink magazine, which was so fucking great, and I forget the exact phrasing, but it was something like this, um, mercenaries fail and missionaries prevail, right? And so if you’re a mercenary to your point, Tom, right? Um, and your podcasting, because podcasting is the new blogging and you know, and so it’s podcasting is, is, is fucking bell bottom jeans. And so you got to get your bell bottom jeans on, right? Uh, uh, yeah, that’s very different than somebody who’s, I’m on a mission

because it, anybody that says it’s, it’s easy to do, has never done it or never done it. Well, you know, they just see the, the from it,

you know, there, there’s work that goes into it. And sometimes when people say, well, why don’t you have a podcast? It’s like, because I’ve seen the hard work that goes into it and there’s a lot of things that you can do to outsource it and have, you know, great people there. But I would say that, you know, for me it’s easier to be a guest than it is to be the host.

So it’s interesting. We were talking about this, I am stunned at the amount of work and the other day in the car, Carrie and I were talking and because I can’t see, right. So I said to her, you know, maybe how much time do you think on a weekly basis I do legends and losers stuff and we sort of broke it down, you know, the various components of the things that you do and so, you know, how many hours do they get to that? And it sort of did that as we were on a bit of a drive and in her estimation it’s 20 hours a week and we dropped two episodes that are, what’s our average time now, Matt?

Around an hour and a half hour, 15 minutes, 15 minutes. So, so what’s that? Two and a half hours and I do that, right? Yeah. Three hours or so. Two and a half to three hours a week. Um, yeah. And then all the other stuff around it. Right. And of course I don’t do one technical thing, right? I press record on zoom. I have press end on Zoom and Matt and company make legends and losers happened. Right? That. And that’s all I do. But even still it’s 20 hours a week and I don’t do one technical fricken thing. I’m now I know our shows a lot longer

that most. Right? Yeah. You’re, you’re preparing, you’re also booking all your grown guests, right?

Yup. Yeah. Which makes a difference. We get guests, we get guests from Tom, we get guests from a few other places every once in a while, but for the most part,

but even then like the, even then the introduction and the law. Even if you get the introduction, the logistics takes time. No. Even if it’s somebody you know, I mean I’ve got a client that is booked all of his own podcasts for, from the very beginning. And even he, at one point, while he’s working on his second edition of it book, he’s like, dude, I don’t have to have a tracking people down. These are all my friends and I can’t get them on the podcast like in a timely manner. Like it just, it takes time to do that stuff if you don’t have somebody

to outsource to, to, to, to do it for, you know, Dande candy does the heavy lift. I do the reach out to the person and invite them to be on the show. And the minute they say yes, then super magical people take care of everything and just show up and, you know, drink scotch and talk to people, press record. So don’t be confused about what happens. So the question is, what are you spending the other 15 hours a week? That’s really the question, isn’t it a, you know, there’s, I think there’s a fair amount of research. I, I read the books and if I don’t read every fricken page, I mean, I,

I’m in the books as soon to say what Jason Calacanis his book. I’m guessing you read every page to every single page, but, um, you know, I get deep into, you know, so I can’t swear on a Bible that I read every single page, but I read the book. I mean, I know that the book’s about, I break it down and, but that’s true for, um, I missed a couple here and there, like Cameron Harold. I was completely embarrassed. He’s written three books and it just, I just didn’t see it. He had written fucking, yeah, with our Howe l Rod, miracle morning for entrepreneurs. And somehow I missed it. And so I, it came out on the episode, I was like, Ugh, for the love of whoever you love, Jesus. They’re terrible hosting because he, I, you know, I’d given his other two books are really good, hard, um, you know, go through.

And so I felt terrible, but, you know, so every once in a while that happens. But, you know, normally if a guest author, there’s a current book, there’s sort of on that. So we’re going to focus a little more on that. Um, you know, so like when I’m, when uh, Erik Weihenmayer came on, uh, I read no barriers, um, but I did not go back and read his everest book. I did read, I’m like a sound view or you know, one of those kinds of things on his everest book. Um, so I was, I wanted to be familiar but I didn’t do as much, you know, looking into that book because, you know, he was out talking about no barriers and look, we spent a lot of time talking about avarice but know normally there’s a book there on, right? Yeah.

What’s, you’re spending lots of time on social media, keeping the community going, um, you know, the way that you give shout outs to people when they make a comment or acknowledge them or the ratings and reviews that. What’s, that’s what makes the difference. I mean just drop into an episode, you know, I don’t know if you went from an hour and 15 minutes down to 15 minutes if that would save you that much time.

Yeah. You know, and that’s a part I had. No, I sort of was blindsided by, you know, the thing that’s interesting about this medium, unlike, you know, television of, of the old days or music of the old days or you radio the old days is there’s no connection between sort of, um, you know, uh, the people behind the mic and the people behind the, you know, the speaker, so to speak. Yeah. Literally, you literally never knew who they were. The biggest bands in the world, the biggest whatever in the world of radio. Dj’s had no idea who their audience was. No names, no emails, no addresses, no idea. Yeah. And so, you know, it’s at the point where it’s very hard to keep up, which, uh, it is a bummer because I know some shit slips and fucking ai. I apologize and I’m dyslexic and I don’t know where the fucking keys are.

And so I know there’s shit, you know, there’s people I want to say thank you to and, and for some reason I missed him and I feel terrible about that and it’s just the combination of sort of not knowing where the keys are and volume getting really big. But all that said, what I didn’t know is how fun that is, you know, and you know, we have people who listened to this show who are incredibly passionate about the show and they do fun shit, you know, and it’s fun that they do fun shit, you know, so whether it’s, you know, Christian and shoots a marine who was one of our very early guests, the founder of Project Relo know, wearing his legends and losers tee shirt when he’s at a Normandy, you know, taking his picture next to one of the monuments and posting that on the facebook group that, that’s fucking great, you know, or more recently, uh, I was sort of curious how people were feeling about, um, you know, the volume of the show and should we do more, should we do less?

Like what, what should we do? And a lot of people on facebook stepped up and sort of said this is how we feel. And most of them said they love to episodes of this length of a week. And some people said more. A few people said less, but most people said they liked this amount. So it was like, okay, because I thought maybe I’ll be doing too much. Should we cut back to one show a week? Should we cut back to a one or two shows one week, one show the next week, and uh, I don’t know because I do know that people tell me they get behind, but I think that intimacy and podcast is so much different. So like going back to 60 minutes, Lesley stall, I know nothing about her, her family, all the rest of that. But have you had it where somebody comes up and starts asking you about, you know, about the girls and the dinosaurs and you’re like thinking who is this person?

They know everything about you because they’ve listened to you for 50 hours and they feel like they know you, they’re your friend. But you know, it’s just that level of connection that’s different in podcasting I think than other mediums. Now. That is trippy shit right there because it started happening the first time. It really hit me. I went and spoke at a conference in Boston in the spring and then there was, I don’t know, six or 800 people there and there were a bunch of people there who listened to legends and losers and they came and introduced themselves and it is a very trippy experience to meet someone who is, has a relationship you because you’re someone in their life, right? They hang out with you, they have bears with you, they drink whiskey with you, they hang out, right? They, they, they, they work out with you or whatever it is. Right? And so it’s a very trippy experience. I am curious about how you guys have had this experience because it’s a newer one for me to meet people who are in this relationship with you and you just met them. You don’t know shit about them and if you like, you’re their uncle or their, their pro or their unwanted whatever, five days.

Tom, do you get that experience a lot from, from appearing as guests on all these shows?

I do, and it’s weird because if my wife’s not there to introduce me because like I’ll forget people’s names and things like that and she’s always really good of throwing the name in there, but there are so many times where I’m trying to figure out how I know this person and then it comes up that I guess I really don’t know them. They know me and it just, I think really speaks to the intimacy of it. Um, and also, you know, building honored that wow, they remembered this. My big problem at times is remembering where I heard something. I mean, Christopher, I was talking to you what time and said, you know, uh, I was, I listened to this podcast and the guy’s talking about that it’s not a world of scarcity anymore. It’s a world of abundance and I’m sharing this great idea with you. And you’re like, yeah, that was my podcast. I’m like, I guess you did that already. Exactly.

But, you know, the, the amazingly cool thing about it, this guy recently, let me see if I can pull it up because it would be very, very, very fonzie if I can figure this out quickly, was tweeting how, uh, at his company they were giving play bigger to their interns and I just, I just thought to myself, because I, this is something I never conceived a which is imagine you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re starting your career or God forbid, imagine this is the first business book you read, First Marketing Book, you read the first strategy book you read. Imagine if that, like a young person reads play big. Anyway, long story longer. You know my heroes guys like David Ogilvy by way of example, a or the recent trout guys. Yeah, they were. There was no way to get to them. Like you had to write them a fucking letter. Okay. And you never heard them on anything. You had to go get us to a conference. You could hear them speak, but there was no way to experienced them. Nevermind. Tweet them. And Awesome Book Dude.

Yeah. And how cool would that have been for me back then?

Yeah. Even to have that ability to take no, that one sided relationship, if you have the ability to hear them on the radio every single week or something like that, like that would have built that, that intimacy to the point where it wouldn’t have been an issue of am I going to buy their next book? It’s when the eft and as the book come out, what come on, like get, get, get, get it out the freaking door. Like I’m ready to buy it. Like we’re already presold. So I think, and this is probably a semi famous quote, but somebody asked Seth Goden like, Hey, I’m a, you know, I’m getting ready to publish my book. When should I start a blog? Is like, well the best time was two years ago. The second best time is right now. Right? Because if you’ve been, if you. And I think it’s even more true for podcasting because it’s so much that the intimacy that you talked about, Tom, I get builds up so much of a relationship. People will buy what you put out. If, let’s say you’re an author and you’re writing a book, they’ll buy it even if they’ve heard the concepts already,

even if they know what the book is about, even if you’ve talked about the core subjects on the show already, you build up such a loyalty because of the intimacy that you have in that format that they will buy what you put out just to support what they’ve already got for free.

The closest I can come to, you know, looking back at it, it’s like Zig Ziglar. You felt like you had a relationship with him because you heard his voice so many times on the tapes, you know, um, Christopher, when you’re on there, you know, we refer to him as Uncle Zig, right? Because

how many hours in the quote Unquote Automobile University did I? And so many other salespeople and entrepreneurs and so forth span was zig ziglar. And of course he was much older and much more experienced than me. He was the master Sensei and I was the kid that needed to learn. And so yeah, you develop a relationship. He’s a person in your life.

Okay. And it would have been different if it was just reading it as opposed to hearing them. And so I think that’s sort of like with podcasting too, it’s like it’s one thing to read a book, it’s another thing to, to hear the person talking about it here, insights on their life and really feel like he got a relationship with them. Yep. Yeah.

Hi Boys. Was there anything else you think we should touch on or should we have some more whiskey or

those right answer would told.

Let’s finish things out and put a nice bow on this one. So Tom, how do people reach you?

Uh, sure. Uh, interview ballets, the easiest place. I’ll put all my, uh, contact information there that, that checklist that I use, all the resources there. Just go to interview valet.com, forward slash legends and losers. And you can see what a welcome page looks like too.

Very, very cool. Alright, for me, pursuing results.com. So you can learn what I, for people like Chris and legends and losers, podcast among others. Basically I take all the, um, tell about the checklist written in blood. Um, I’ve done this, I’ve literally worked every position done every role in podcasting from the top down, all the way down to the crappiest job I’ve systematized at all, uh, and uh, basically work with clients to run my same systems that work for my podcast for them. So you get to work with the same staff that produces my show to, uh, to produce your show. So that is what pursuing results is all about, is you can go there and then legends and losers.com to actually subscribe to the show and get onto the email list where we send you the latest episodes every week.

How smooth is that? He just did that. He just so smooth. Tom, after a thousand you’re like, I, I can’t do the, the, the. I mean I wish I would’ve gone. You’re like, I, you know, I wish I would’ve gone second on that, but I wouldn’t have been able to go because all you would have heard is the mic drop after that. Well, and I just got to say to both of you, man, I love you guys. This has been so much fun together and with both of you guys from the first conversation we had, it was just obvious. It was like, okay, we’re in this together. Right? And it’s been so much fun at, you know, maybe this is another, just comes with age, I don’t know, but the, the reward is absolutely the journey. Yeah. Right. Like we’ve said, it had to be a top 50 business show. Okay. And uh, the reward is just going out and going for the beehag that’s the reward. Right? And it’ll be fun when we get there and I have every belief that we will, but the reward is doing legends and losers, you know, for me personally, I get to have at least two conversations that week with somebody who blows my mind

and, and we get to work together. Okay. We have a lot of fun. Yeah. It’s really, it’s really great. And so I love both of you. You’ve made such a huge contribution to my life. You brought this thing that I could never have done by myself. I feel the same way about Collin, Collin, I love you. And uh, love to have you back on sometime soon for the love of whoever you want to love on. But um, uh, yeah, it’s really the best part for me is the day in and day out journey, you know, with you guys, with our guests, with Candy, with Carrie was Collin and you know, we just have this great team and we’re out having fun and we’re trying to do the show and hopefully make a difference. But I, I can’t thank you guys enough. I mean there’s way I could have done this by myself and you make a difference every single day, every single week we learn all this cool stuff together and the reward is the journey. It’s been awesome so far and we just got to keep going. So thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. We are just getting started.

Be Legendary my friends. All right, well there it is. I hope you enjoyed that as much as clearly we did. If you liked this episode, you will love episode 44 modern marketing and promoting Bob Marley’s favorite reggae band with Christian Sarkar and Paul Maher as a great episode, one life fully lived dream plan and live your best life. A are a are big annual event in Sacramento, October 21 and 22 a Sacramento October 21st and 22nd. Um, it’s a fantastic conference, uh, with amazing speakers and, um, you know, we really try to deliver a full curriculum for architecting and designing the best life issue you can possibly imagine. And because one life fully lived is a nonprofit, we try to do that at a cost that is as close to free as, as humanly possible. One life fully lived, dot org. We’d love it if you check us out@legendsandlosers.com and subscribe and that way you never miss an episode.

And if you want to email us, you always can. Black hole@legendsandlosers.com. And most importantly, we would love it if you shared the show. We would like to thank Harper Collins instant classic, play bigger. How pirates dreamers and innovators create and dominate markets, netsweet number one in cloud erp. Check us out@netsuite.com equity directory, connecting startups to the talent and resources they need to build a legendary business, one life fully lived.org, Dream Plan, and live your best life. Come out and see us in Sacramento, verve coffee roasters, Santa Cruz, California, and always@vervecoffee.com. The official coffee of legends and losers, a terrorist systems stopping fire while saving firefighters in the environment with strong water technology, positive marketing, legendary marketing and category design in the United Kingdom, pursuing results.com. Producers of legendary podcasts and this one to interview Valet podcast. Interview Marketing. Get on some podcasts and get some business done. This podcast is the sole property of the legends and losers odcast network, and we would love it if you shared the shit out of it.

We must remind you that all rights do remain disturbed and we must warn you that legends and losers can cause bingeing. The producers of this podcast may not have been paying. Attention. Cast is clearly produced in a studio that does contain nuts, was the big Lebowski. Listen to spinal tap. Remember, legends and losers. There’s never tested on Gmos. Would be nice to your mother. Support your local podcaster and a hey. Thank you. Candy Dandy. We Love You and Collin. This odd gassed really ties the room together. Our deepest apologies. Go out to former Volkswagen chief executive officer Martin winterkorn. Sorry Martin, we just ran out of time for you. That’s it, my friends. We’ll see you again soon. On another episode of legends and losers.