Listen to the full interview here ( 32:43 minutes)
Go back old piners to another episode of stop riding the Pine and today’s episode, Jamie j interviews Tom Schwabb. Stay tuned, guys
Shout out. This week’s rating and review comes from. Keep lived, dig. It’s titled, Jamie rocks the Pine with this podcast. Jamie j does a fantastic job with his podcast. Stop riding the pine. He’s a great interviewer and I really like his guest. Each time I listened, I can count on learning something new. He makes his show both highly entertaining as well as educational. It’s always a good time listening to his show. Keep up the great work, Jamie. Awesome review. If you would like to get your rating and review, read here on the show. Go to stop riding the pine. What word slash itunes? This is. Stop riding the pine, the world’s best marketing show.
Communicate with them
how can I build trust and lifetime value? All those things that our grandparents did to build their business, maybe or great grandparents. That strategy still works today. Part of that entire program is really the ones that people at that people asked for at the end and we hadn’t that bonus, this entire system. You can outsource everything but the interview, so think about that when the rolling stones tour, they don’t do everything. They just perform
or ela there. It’s your host Jamie j with another episode of stop riding the Pine and since we passed our 50th episode, we’ve been learning a lot and we just enjoy podcasting more and more with each episode that we bring on in each guest that we bring on, we’re able to really dive in and get clear dynamic information. The kind of stuff that you, my old piners my listeners are searching for and today as you heard in the introduction, we have none other than Mr Tom Schwab on the line from Tom Schwab.com and he is going to be talking to us about a twist, something you can use to really, really, really build business with your ideal customer that you may have not thought about too much before. But before we go into that, I’d like to introduce Mr Thomas Schwab. How are you sir? Hey Jamie. I am thrilled to be here.
Live from Kalamazoo, Michigan. Oh, that’s fantastic. Hockey central. No, it hasn’t been frozen here yet. There we go. So, so Tom, I’m really excited to have you on the show. Oh, we have some mutual friends in Aaron Walker and Matt Miller, both of who’ve been on the show and we had great episodes with them and I wonder if my listeners, they’re called the old piners there. They consist of entrepreneurs and wantrepreneurs people that really want to take their skills and knowledge and make a business out of it, but they sometimes just don’t know some of the steps or some things that they could do to take that to the next level. And I wonder before we dove into your building a business with your ideal customer, if you could tell them a little bit about who you are and some of your background.
Sure. My background only makes sense in the rear view mirror. Looking backwards, my first job out of college was running a nuclear power plant and I’ve run a nuclear power plant and I’ve run a small business and I always say one of them was easy because it came with an instruction manual. So my, I see the world from an engineering standpoint, problems to be solved and what can we learn from things and how to build better engines. And really that’s how I built all my businesses is to look at it from that perspective. And I love online business right now because in the old days people would say, well, half the money we spend is wasted. We just never know what happened is. And today we can know what works, what doesn’t. We can do things that were only dreamed of, you know, five years ago. We can build these great online businesses for wherever we are. You know, you can do it from, if you can do it from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you can do it from anywhere. And I always say that, um, you know, you can build the bid the engine, but online it’s really content that fuels that engine. And that’s really what I’m most excited about is all the different ways we have of connecting with people and helping them and providing them information and letting them know so they can be customers of ours.
Well, that’s really good insight and that kind of perks. One question right away, when there’s all these different ways and methodologies. Online business is super loud, super noisy. Everybody out there is trying to sell something or establish authority doing something. And it’s often, this is probably one of the most popular questions I get asked is how do I market myself effectively online? How do I break through all that noise? And um, can you elaborate on that at all?
I can and I would say don’t ask that question online. Go find the oldest business owner you know, and ask them for their advice, right? Your grandparents knew how to build a business, they knew that strategy. And if you can understand the strategy of how can I connect with my customers, how can I communicate with them? How can I build trust and lifetime value? You know, all those things that our grandparents did to build their business. Maybe our great grandparents, that strategy still works today, so if you understand that now come back to the, you know, uh, to modern day and say, what tools out there can I use in order to, to connect with my customers? I don’t need to use all the tools but pick out which ones are going to be worthwhile, you know, people will say you need to be on facebook and instagram and all the rest of this.
And they asked me what do I think? And I’m like, where are your customers? And I think back, uh, uh, quite a few years ago, I guess was three or four years ago, my daughter who was in junior high at the time said, dead. You’d need to be on instagram. And I’m like, why is that? She said, because everybody is on instagram. And I said, well, who’s, who’s everybody? She said, me and all my friends, and I’m like, well my, my customers are not on Instagram, so why should I be on there? So it’s really figuring out what your strategy is, how, how can I communicate with my customers? How can I build trust? How can I serve them and once you figure that out, then come back to the online space and say, which part of these can help me do that? Because the tools are always going to change, but that strategy is is eternal,
right? That strategy will remain consistent for sure, and this goes to show and I’ve done other shows where we’ve talked about ways of building your business and getting into business and finding your passion and things like that, but I haven’t really dove too far into identifying what tools worked best for you because you can’t use all the tools. It’s that’s impossible, but you have a strategy that I am super interested in learning more about where you can actually build business, leverage your time through someone else’s work and still benefit immensely. And I wonder if maybe you can dive into that a little bit.
Well, Jane, I’m glad you take it that way because he’ll. Anybody that’s done a podcast knows how much work it is and I think as I explained this, you’re going to. You’re the old pioneers are going to look and go, oh, Jamie’s doing all the work and Tom’s getting all the benefit here. That doesn’t seem fair, but what we use a lot of different tools and we always measure and say what works best. And you know, for years we used a lot of content from blogs and you know, I asked you to listeners the old piners, you know, how many blogs do you actually read a day? What difference do they make? So on a note, a good blog will convert readers to leads at a rate of about one to two percent. And we had a client that had great stories to tell and he, he could, he could tell a story and really connect with people.
And so we thought, well, I wonder if we could get him on podcasts and to tell his story and drive business back to his website. And we did that. Jamie and we were blown away when we saw the conversion rates were anywhere from 25 to 50 percent better than blogs. Solely cow. Yeah. These, this traffic was converting, you know, 25 percent to 75 percent, so for every four people that came to the website, you know, anywhere from one to three, we’re filling out a form or engaging with him to say how can we work together and the strategy really is how can you get on a podcast and talk to your ideal customers? How can you tell your story, get them to know, like, and trust you, how can you give them reasons to come back to your website and then how can you engage with them and it’s really a process that we’ve worked through and done a lot of testing on a and it’s been one of the most powerful out there. And as far as return on investment, I’d say it works better than anything of how to take listeners and turn them into leads.
That’s incredible. And here’s, here’s the neat thing. A lot of people are intimidated. They don’t view themselves as an expert in their particular field even though, believe it or not, most people know a lot more about that. So you’ll never know the most. There’s always somebody that’s going to know more, but whatever you’re most passionate about, uh, whether it’s your business or whatever it is you, you’re in that industry, you’re in that business every single day. You learning a lot and there’s a lot of other people that want to know more about what you do every day. So I wonder if maybe you can talk to that and an understanding, you know,
that is often the biggest challenge. And you know, I’ll, I’ll admit that I had that challenge too. What makes me an expert? And you’ve got to look at the legal definition of an expert. If you were in called into court right now, what would make you an expert in the legal definition is someone by virtue of their education, their experience, their training, who knows more than the average person. So you’re not saying I am the only expert, you’re saying I am an expert. And with that there’s really three types of experts. You know, you’ve got the professor and this is the guy with the phd and all the degrees that makes them an expert. And really those people don’t do that well on podcast. They’re hard to relate to and uh, they’ve got a different style. The next one is the veteran and that’s the person that’s been through it all.
He’s got the war wounds, the stories. That person is great on podcasts because they can tell stories. The final one, which is a lot of people is the Sherpa. You know, that’s the person that’s going through it right now. They’re there. They’ve got the same challenges that the listeners do. They’ve got the same questions the listeners do. They’ve just got a different experience. One of my favorite Sherpas is a guy by the name of Nick Pavlidis, who is, um, uh, it’s got a podcast and a book now called confessions of a terrible husband. Lessons learned from low, all lumpy couch it. Here’s, here’s just a guy trying to be a good dad, a good father, a good provider. And so he is seen as an expert in that. So I would, I would challenge every one of the old piners out there. Look at yourself in the mirror.
You are an expert on something if you work in your business, if you’re the owner of the business, the founder of it, the, the key employee, you were the expert on that business and if you are working in that space day in, day out, eight to 10 hours a day, guess what, you are an expert and a, you just need to take that expertise and share that with other people. Because one of my favorite quotes is from a guy by the name of Derek Sivers. He, uh, uh, was the founder of CD baby, which is the precursor to itunes. And he always said, what’s ordinary to you is amazing to others and it’s only right that you take what you know and share that with the world.
I couldn’t agree with that more. I think you nailed it on the head and it, it almost took podcasting for me to really understand that and it, you know, what’s weird is that, for instance, you probably know a lot more about this than me, especially with your background and, and you know, your masterminds that you’re affiliated with. But the thing is, is I’m able to ask you questions and it almost puts me in a position of expertise within this particular niche or this industry, and I’m actually asking questions from you and learning from you, but because it’s my show, I’m kind of an expert on it, which is really weird to me. And it took me a while to understand that. Um, so first of all, thank you for being on the show because this is awesome.
Going back to being a podcast guest is, it’s a mutual thing, right? Right now, none of the old piners know who I am. They don’t normally like me to trust me, but because you’ve invited me on, you vetted me, now I get authority from you also. So if you think about it, what makes me an expert in your listener’s ears? It’s because Jamie thinks I’m an expert. So I would encourage other people that, you know, if you can get on podcast and share something of value, um, you know, I always say that the, your goal on any podcasts being interviewed is to make the host look like a freaking genius for having you on.
Well, thank you. I, I’ve, I even feel smarter already. So I wanted maybe dive into your connect process and you, you wrote a book on that and with, with steps and I’m wondering if maybe you can dive into that a little bit and explain how someone can connect with their ideal customer and build a business through getting on different interviews. It says here a set of set them up as an expert, get booked on a show, do the interview listening listeners to leads the conversion process and then leads to customers actually getting sales from this. And I wonder if maybe you can elaborate on that book that you wrote.
Sure. And really it’s based on a years worth of experience with over a dozen different brands, companies, um, and on over 500 different podcasts where we really came up with this system. And it really is a system. If you follow every step of it, the engine works. If you skip steps, you won’t get the same results. And it starts out with trying to define who you want to talk to. There’s 186,000 podcasts out there today. You don’t need to be on everyone, you don’t want to be on everyone, you just want to be on ones that have your ideal customer. So that’s why I’m on this show as opposed to there’s probably some great macrame podcast, but I’m not going to be on it. So that’s number one. Number two is defining yourself as the expert. And we talked about that a little bit before, but the guest, and excuse me, the host and the audience will never see you as an expert if you don’t see it yourself ass.
So you need to really define that message of what do I need to share with them. So that’s step two, step three is getting invited to be on a podcast and it sounds harder than it is most podcast guests or excuse me, podcast hosts are looking for great interviews. They’re looking for interesting people out there. So if you’ve got a story and, and valuable information that you can share, you can get on those podcasts. And uh, you know, in our, in our course that we have, we’ve got a list of over 400 podcasts that have, you know, get that are looking for guests just like you. Step four is really the interview itself and the interview is supposed to be part of a process. Now it’s great to be on there, but you want to make sure that as you’re talking here, that you’re giving people a reason to go back to your site, so to, to give different offers and resources and make it easy for them to get there.
You know, podcasting is great because there’s a lot of things that, that you can’t see on a podcast. Now we had one client that made these quilts and they made them out of t shirts and everything like that. And Jamie, you’ll appreciate this one. She made one for a Wayne Gretzky. Cut Up all kinds of jerseys going to make this great quill. Well, if she’s talking on a sports podcast on this podcast, you know, she would say, yeah, and if you don’t want, if you want to that, that quilt, just go back to my website and you’d see that Wayne Gretzky quilt. If she was on Shay, I’m a baby podcast, or have you know, a young moms podcast. She might say, you know, we make quilts out of baby clothes and if you want to see one just come back, you know, a reason for them to go from being listeners to visitors to your site.
And really that’s the next step. Then, you know, once they get to your site, how do you welcome them? How do you take the authority from the host and transfer that to yourself? How do you give them all the promises, everything you’ve talked about, and then trade that for an email address. And then really it’s at that point becomes how do you set up your online sales funnel or buyer’s funnel, whatever you want to call it, how do you nurture them to continue to add value so that they want to buy things from you. You know, Gary Vaynerchuk wrote a book called Jab, Jab, Jab, Jab. I might’ve missed a jab, right hook I was looking at, as you know, serve, serve, serve, serve, ask. And that’s really what we’re doing right here.
It’s really fantastic because I’d mentioned earlier a little bit about how you can leverage your message through different people’s platform, which we’ve been talking about here. And that’s really, really powerful because when you take into consideration everything that an entrepreneur, wantrepreneur needs to consider in not only launching but maintaining a successful business, they really have to not only understand their ideal customer who that is, but they have to find the best way to get their message out there and if they can leverage their time, which I think, and you may agree or may have something to talk about there, but if you can leverage your time with something like that, you are really, really, really doing a good job. And so by seeing how this is laid out in these six steps there that you did in your book, you, it’s real easy. You broke it down to third grade. Simple. I’d like to say that’s a Joel boggess saying third grade simple, I think. And, and it gives people a structure to follow. And, uh, I, I really love the concept and I think it’s just amazing that you recorded that in over 500 interviews. So you got a lot of knowledge.
Well, we tested a lot of things and you know, just I’ll show you behind the curtain. Everything I’m doing here is what other people can do. You know, I’ve gotten on a podcast, I’ve, I’ve talked to my ideal listeners, you know, I should say now that if you want the infographic for, for this entire step, just go back to the website is Tom Schwab.com forward slash pine. And Jamie will have the link in the show notes too, but there’s an infographic that describes it all. There’s, you can click on there and watch a free 30 minute training that tells you all to do this. So what I’m doing here and what you can do also is you bring them back to your, your site. Now, the reason that I gave you, you know, Tom Schwab.com forward slash pine is for a few reasons. One, this is evergreen content.
So if you listen to this, the day it posts, I want you to make sure that you get everything you want, but if it’s two years later, I don’t want you to come into my homepage and being frustrated. So that welcome page that I sent you send you two has got everything there. The other thing is that when you talk about, you know, learning on your business here too, that when you know what page somebody is coming to, you can track them back and say, okay, well this person came from Jamie’s podcast and I can figure out very quickly what podcasts, you know, connected the best. Was it something I said there? Is this something that I offered? Was it the audience? Because I’ve done over 75 podcasts personally and I’ve been on one that, uh, had maybe 100,000 downloads on the episode and I got a handful of leads from it. I’ve been on a podcast that the host swears she has 300 downloads per episode. And if that’s the case, 50 percent of the people came to my site and filled out a four. So really, it’s not the size of the audience, you don’t need to go fishing in a big ocean, you just need to figure out what pond has the fish you’re going after.
And speaking to Gary Vaynerchuk, uh, he says the power of one, one person, you don’t know who’s listening to that show. It could be that one person that’s perfect ideal customer for you.
And that’s a great example. Last year in 2014, Gary Vaynerchuk made the commitment that he was going to be do one interview a day, so he did a total of 365 interviews and he did that to build this audience because there are still a whole lot of people that don’t know who Gary v is and he can get on different shows and the least introduce himself. You know, you look at President Obama, I mean, that guy can get national coverage whenever he wants, but yet he still saw the value of sitting down and Mark Marin’s garage. Uh, so he could talk to people on, on his podcast there.
Yeah. Interesting story on that. And I’m sorry for the Sidebar, we’ll get back into this, but that’s a very interesting story. And did you go to podcast movement? I did. Oh, fantastic. Okay. So you heard his, his, uh, keynote then when he was talking about one of the funnest things that he got to do when President Obama came to his garage to be on his show, was going over to his next door neighbor and asked him if he didn’t mind if a sniper was able to get on his route, was a little side note. But, uh, yeah, this, this, uh, this might be a good segue to get into my breakaway moment segment for you. And what I liken this to is I’m a big fan of hockey and if you don’t know this is my favorite play in all of hockey is the breakaway.
It’s super exciting. And what happens is one player goes, finds its way through all the other players and it’s just that player in the goalie. One of two things are gonna happen. That goal is going to shoot and score a goal. His team’s going to be elated. And the other thing is the goalie might make an unbelievable save and it might change the momentum. Uh, I likened it to a game changer possibly, and something happened in either that player or that goalies life throughout their career or when they’re a kid. It could be personal, it could be professional. Something happened that triggered them to be do all the training and everything that necessarily to put them in that position at that very time. So my question to you, Tom, is, when was your breakaway moment? What led you to where you are today?
I would have to go back to the way I view the world. You can tell people that, that were accountants or artistic or engineering and that really shaped my mind view with the world. I look at this. Everything is possible that you can build the golden gate bridge. If you can figure out the formula to it, that you can build a business. If you could just figure out the formula to it. It’s not magic. You know, there’s no magic tricks out there. All you’ve got to do is learn how it’s done, continue to improve that. And that every business I’ve ever grown has been built off of that don’t build the engine and keep learning from it. Keep refining it. And amazing part now is that the tools have gotten so cheap, you know, we can use almost for free, uh, the same thing that fortunate 500 companies were paying millions of dollars for five years ago. And the amazing part is that the customers are always telling us, do more of this, do less of this. And so to build a business that the customer wants, all we’ve got to do is listen to of them. So that’s my breakaway moment. It just, uh, looking at how I view the world and what is possible.
That’s great. That’s fantastic. So when someone goes to team Schwab.com, forward slash pine, they’re going to get that info graphic in a, an, a, in an access to a 30 minute training from you. Can you maybe point out one or two of the things that they can look forward to learning?
Yeah, most definitely. The learn how to define the ideal customer, the learn how to all the steps we talked about how to define themselves more as an expert, how to approach a podcast host so that it’s not a cold call, but it’s seen as, wow, this guy could really help me on the show. We’ll talk about how to do, how do.
I’d like, I’m sorry to interrupt, but do you provide like sample emails or something like that that might be able to help them out or
oh, we do that in the entire course, but we’ve also got videos with that. I’ve done interviews with, uh, with different people that are extended interviews to talk about how do you get out of podcasts. We’ve got interviews to talk about how to be a great guest and then how to take people from listeners to leads. The book is there that you can buy. It’s coming out in the end of October 2015 and then at the end of the Webinar also we have an online course. If you want to get faster results with this, we’ve put an online course together that’s got two hours of training with it, 66 different videos, all the worksheets, the, uh, the templates that we use for all of our clients along with 400 podcasts that are looking for guests like you. And I think the most important part of that entire program is really the ones that people have, that people asked for at the end.
And we added that on as a bonus that this entire system, you can outsource everything but the interview. So think about that when the rolling stones go on tour, uh, they don’t do everything. They just perform. And when you’re on a podcast telling your story about the company, you’re really the performer. So you can set this system up so that somebody else sets up the interview. Somebody else does these welcome pages and, and promotes it during social media. And those are the clients that we’ve seen have amazing success with this, where they’ll take a four hours out of their day and talk on maybe six different podcasts and speak to hundreds of thousands of potential customers each week. That way it’s, it’s an incredible be it from a book author trying to launch a book, crowdfunding, trying to get the message out at about it. Coaches, manufacturers, really if you’ve got a story to tell to your prospective customers and you can tell it through podcasts.
I love it. Virtual Book Tours, right? Exactly. Fantastic. Well, how do people get in touch with you then? Is there any other ways besides team Schwab Dot com?
There’s the, there’s the website. I’m on twitter at tm Schwab and I love linkedin. Also a. So feel free to reach out to me there. I’m the only time, Schwab and Kalamazoo. And once again, I always say what’s ordinary to you is amazing to me. So, um, I love connecting with people. I also speak at various events out there. So if you go to the website, please look and see if I’m going to be in your area. You know, I’d love to see it at a meeting and connect with the are there also
fantastic. I highly recommend going to a Tom site team, Schwab.com, and look in the sidebar of his website. You’ll see his book connect, Grow Your Business, speaking directly to your dream customers. Put your first name and your email in there so that you can get a chance to really dive into this. I couldn’t recommend it enough. What a great concept and breaking it down to make it super simple. Uh, talked about leveraging your time in third grade, third grade. Simple. This is it. Well, Tom, do you have anything else you’d like to add?
Well, Jamie, I just, your encouragement to your audience that, you know, get off the pine stop riding the pine. We’ve got, there’s a lot of problems in the world right now, but I don’t think there’s ever been a better time to, uh, to be a business owner, to be an entrepreneur. The resources we have out there, that first podcast interview that you do, I can guarantee you that it’s going to be your worst podcast interview. Yes, but do you know what, if you, if you keep doing it, you’re going to get better and better and better and more comfortable with it. I’m a, I’ll admit the first one will be scary, but go beyond scary. You know, stop riding the pine, reach out to a podcast host and tell their story and tell your story is the best way to talk directly to your ideal customers because one thing’s for sure as podcasting continues to grow, it becomes more on demand radio. Your potential customers are going to be listening to podcasts. The only question is, are they going to be listening to you or your competitor?
Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. With carplay, right? All 2016 models have that little pike podcast icon. Yeah, so everybody’s going to be listening to it. Oh, Tom, thank you so much for your incredible insight and I just really appreciate you taking the time to kind of go over what you have going on. Thank you, jb. It’s been a pleasure. Well, this is your host. Jamie j was stop riding the pine. Yes, you heard it right? We got to interview Mr Tom Schwab and to really get an idea of how amazing tom is and what he has going on. Go visit a site team, Schwab.com. Like I said, this is Jamie J. hosted to stop riding the pine. Every member, everybody the puck stops here. Have a fan tastic day and we’ll talk to you soon.
This episode was brought to you by none other than done for you wp.com. That’s done don. He the number four. Why? Oh, you wp.com. Done for you. Wp Dot com is a wordpress support and maintenance services website where you can pretty much have your own development team. You get the guys to build whatever you need to make any fixes or repairs on your website so that you can focus and concentrate on what matters most to you and not have to worry about the technical aspect of your wordpress website that’s done for you. Wp Dot com. Go on over. Check them out and if you’re interested, we also have a new affiliate area where you can sign up for their services and actually make some money yourself by referring this resource out to others. That’s done for UWP.com. My name is Jamie j and thanks so much for tuning in. We’ll talk with you soon.